Navigating PWIs: Insights from Adell Coleman and Anna DeShawn

Shandra McDonald [00:00:05]:

This is the Academic Survival podcast, and I'm your host, doctor Chandra McDonald. Statistics show that approximately 40% of students drop out of college every year. In fact, nearly 30% drop out their 1st Erick. Well, I am on a mission to improve these stats.

Anna Deshawn [00:00:38]:

But white folks who grew up in the city around Other people is way different than white folks who grow up in rural areas. And I went to school in Iowa. Child, there were people who had never seen a black person in real life in Iowa, and I mean that for real. Okay? There's a lot of people who grow up on farms. There's people who grow up in a lot of places. They there is no diversity. Okay? The diversity they get is when they turn on the television, and that's it. That's the representation they receive.

Anna Deshawn [00:01:03]:

So, yeah, going to a PWI in Iowa is it was culture shock.

Adell Coleman [00:01:14]:

I remember being in our laundry room And I've, like, didn't plan on it, but I ended up, like, teaching a class on laundry for, like, 7 white girls. Like, this is detergent. This is bleach. This is, like, literally teaching. And I was literally just teaching my roommate, and then she called some friends and it became a class.

Shandra McDonald [00:01:36]:

That's Anna DeShawn and Adele Coleman, hosts of the Head Nod, a podcast that delves into the experiences of being black in predominantly white spaces. Season 1 of their podcast focuses on black experiences at PWIs, which stands for predominantly white institutions. On this episode of academic survival, they share their personal stories and tips that will inspire black students and also keep you laughing. As students who went to predominantly black high schools, transitioning to a PWI had its share of challenges and triumphs. So don't miss out on this essential conversation that sheds light on this unique journey toward academic and personal success. Welcome to the academic survival podcast. Today, I have with me the host of the Head Knot. I have Adele and Anna.

Shandra McDonald [00:02:31]:

So welcome to the Academic Survival Podcast. How are you?

Anna Deshawn [00:02:34]:

Thank you.

Adell Coleman [00:02:35]:

Good. Yes. Thanks for having us.

Shandra McDonald [00:02:40]:

Yes. So can you tell me a little bit about your podcast, The Head Knot, and how it all came about?

Adell Coleman [00:02:45]:

So I can tell you what it's about and then Anna can tell you how it came to be. Kelly. So yeah. So The Head Knot is a podcast that we created that is about being black in predominantly white spaces. And so season 1 is about the black experiences at PWI or predominantly white institutions. And Anna and I realized we both went to PWIs. I wanted to share that because we often hear, you know, conversations about HBCUs, and there's no knock against that about us folk that went to the other side of the university. So that's what the 1st season is about, but we'll have future seasons that cover, you know, what it's like to be black in predominantly white spaces.

Shandra McDonald [00:03:23]:

Anna, can you tell me how you the 2 of you met?

Anna Deshawn [00:03:26]:

Oh, I I love this story because I was checking for Adele, and she wasn't checking for me. Okay? Because CEOs of major media companies, you know, when they're sitting on stages and telling everybody about their process and how brilliant they are. You know, they ain't checking for these indie no. I'm kidding. But for real for real, we met at a conference, and honestly, I was looking for Adele. She was speaking on a panel with other black women podcasters. They were talking about their process of creation and how they manage their podcasts. And DCP Entertainment, which is where Adele works, is one of our partners for my company called The Cube.

Anna Deshawn [00:04:13]:

And so I had been in communication with the CEO, Chris, and I knew when I saw that Adele speaking that I wanted to connect with her. On the other side, Chris had told Adele that he

Adell Coleman [00:04:21]:

needed to connect. She needs to connect Exactly. So, I was looking for her.

Anna Deshawn [00:04:26]:

Technically, I was definitely looking for her for sure. And then we met, we saw each other again at another conference. We just started talking, and we realized that we both went to PWIs. We had a lot of same similar experiences, and we thought this would be a really dope pod. And so here we are.

Shandra McDonald [00:04:41]:

That's awesome. So then can each of you tell me where you grew up? So, let's go with Adele first.

Adell Coleman [00:04:47]:

Sure. So I grew up in Washington DC. I currently reside in Maryland, but I grew up within the city of the District of Columbia.

Anna Deshawn [00:04:58]:

Indeed. And then I grew up on the south side of Chicago.

Shandra McDonald [00:05:00]:

For both of you, was that a predominantly black experience for you?

Adell Coleman [00:05:05]:

Yeah. DC's changed a lot. But when I grew up in DC, it was known as Chocolate City. So, it was a lot of black people everywhere, music in the streets, a lot of arts Kind of happening. You just kind of got used to the sound of the city. Like, DC was always full of, like, go music and Caribbean, you know, influence and stuff like that. We have a lot of festivals. So I grew up used to seeing, you know, pretty much a lot of black folk, like, everywhere.

Adell Coleman [00:05:32]:

Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:05:33]:

Yeah. Same. I mean, south side of Chicago, the great migration is real. Okay. Everybody here, in certain parts of the city is definitely black. Definitely probably your people from the south somewhere that that submits your Chicago ness.

Shandra McDonald [00:05:45]:

Right. Right. So then I I Gathered in it safe to assume that your high schools were predominantly black then.

Anna Deshawn [00:05:53]:

My yeah.

Adell Coleman [00:05:54]:

For the most part. Like, it was it was My high school was pretty small because I went to a art school. I went to Duke Ellington School for the Arts here, which is a performing arts school here. And, yeah, it was predominantly Black. I hesitated because it kind of shifted a little bit, but for the most part, it was all black folk.

Anna Deshawn [00:06:11]:

Yeah. It was all black school. Even though my high school was black, A Black private Lutheran school, it was still all Black even though none of us were Lutheran. So that's it. Except for me. Maybe like a handful of us.

Shandra McDonald [00:06:26]:

So then when you transitioned from high school to college and are now find found yourself in a predominantly white space. How was that transition for you?

Adell Coleman [00:06:43]:

It was interesting for me because so just a little bit of a backstory. My dad used to work at St. Albans School for the Boys Here, and that is a private school that is pretty much predominantly white. Okay. And I mentioned that because they had summer camp that was open for everyone. And because we was kids and somebody worked there, we got To go there for the summer. So, I had some experiences, but, you know, like, kind of in and out with those predominantly white And the kids that attended that school were, like, the sons of presidents and, you know, a lot of those, like, upper crest folk. But going to a PWI, I saw a lot of the similarities that I kind of saw as a kid where it became just kind of finding your people.

Adell Coleman [00:07:26]:

Anna and I often talk about, like, that 1st day on campus or those 1st couple of weeks on campus, like, finding your crew, and we literally did that. Like, I remember My 1st day of school just finding all the black folk pretty much, like, walking around and linking up, but I did I find myself just kind of really try to be open to getting to know and even, like, in a lot of ways understand how, you know, how white people move and how they think. You know, there were some challenges along the way. My 1st roommate was a was a white girl who didn't know how to do her laundry, didn't know how to do, like, things that were just, like, basic to me. Like, I've been at Laundromat since I can remember. Like, that was just ingrained in me, and I remember being in our laundry room and if, like, Didn't plan on it, but I ended up, like, teaching a class on laundry for, like, 7 white girls. Like, this is Detergent. This is Bleach.

Adell Coleman [00:08:18]:

This is, like, literally teaching, and I was literally just teaching my roommate. And then she called some friends, and it became a class. Slick. Yes. Yes. So we

Shandra McDonald [00:08:27]:

have a whole new appreciation for quarters. It's like quarters are gold.

Adell Coleman [00:08:30]:

Yes. Like, for real. And so, It was interesting to see like culturally things that were just like regular for me and things that they, you know, didn't necessarily have to experience and then They came from, like, a small town. So just a lot of cultural differences. Like, I always had braids in my hair and they're like and they come up back with a different style. They also I cut my hair 1 semester, and then it grew back super-fast the next semester. Just a lot of those differences That you kind of see firsthand and experience, you know, firsthand.

Shandra McDonald [00:09:03]:

Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:09:04]:

Yeah. I too. I I had a lot of diverse experiences growing up in I sang with the Chicago Children's Choir. I traveled around the country, went out the country. So, I spent time with white folks outside of school, you know? But White folks who grow up in the city around other people is way different than white folks who grow up in rural areas. And I went to school in Iowa. Child, there were people who had never seen a black person in real life in Iowa, and I mean that for real. Okay? There's a lot of people who grow up on farms.

Anna Deshawn [00:09:33]:

As people who grow up in a lot of places, they there is no diversity. Okay? The diversity they get is when they turn on the television, and that's it. That's the representation they receive. So, Yeah. Going to a PWI in Iowa is it was culture shock. It was a lot. It was a lot navigating those spaces. So, yeah, we find each other real quick.

Anna Deshawn [00:09:53]:

Real quick. Okay. Great friend.

Shandra McDonald [00:09:58]:

Hey. Did you guys experience, like, common hangouts on campus, like, this is where the where this is where the black people hang out.

Adell Coleman [00:10:05]:

Oh, yeah. Like, I got recruited immediately for, like, The multicultural council. And then when word got out that I did spoken word and poetry, it's a few shows they put on. And so, they were like, you got of be one of the first I'm like, what is that? Like, what are y'all talking about? I don't I don't know what that is. But, yeah, a lot of the upperclassmen ended up doing, like, a lot of recruitment for the diverse organizations on campus, Which I appreciate it because it became like a watering hole. We had our MCC room, couple of rooms, and the student union building, 1 or 2 in the library that were like regular places. And then honestly, 1 Apple class and always threw a party off campus, so we knew we knew what was happening every Friday. That's where we went.

Anna Deshawn [00:10:46]:

Yeah. And we had a coalition of Black students. So, we had our BCC, our Black Cultural Center, and so that's where we would hang out a lot. But at the end of the day, it's just everybody's rooms. Right? Who's room with? Who room are we hanging out at?

Adell Coleman [00:10:58]:

Who has the most snacks?

Anna Deshawn [00:10:59]:

Here. Yeah. So, you

Shandra McDonald [00:11:01]:

know, I I I felt to ask Skew, which schools did you go to? Which PWIs did you attend?

Anna Deshawn [00:11:07]:

We are

Adell Coleman [00:11:09]:

good. Penn State, Anna's come so far. I went to Penn State University, and I went to DU.

Anna Deshawn [00:11:15]:

Drake University. Go Bulldogs. I also went to Ithaca College. I don't know what we are. Yeah. Actually, I did research it. We're the bombers, which I think is terrible.

Adell Coleman [00:11:27]:

Yeah. Let's stick with DU. Okay? I wouldn't.

Anna Deshawn [00:11:30]:

I was like, wow. Why are we calling ourselves the bombers? But, yeah, we're sticking with DU the Bulldogs, but I did go to Ithaca College.

Shandra McDonald [00:11:37]:

Transitioning from the high schools that you were at into college, like, did you feel that high school prepared you for the transition or should I say, in what ways do you do you feel that it did prepare you, if at all?

Anna Deshawn [00:11:55]:

It's tough. I don't know how many high schools can really say, like, these kids are leaving here ready to go. I mean, the experience is just so night and day. I know that they do, but the experiences are just so night and day. Academically, yeah, I was prepared. I was smart kid. But then end of the day, leave at home, being on your own, being 18, Chile, all things are off limits. I mean, this but overall, I was not prepared pretty much, but I I did go to a small school.

Anna Deshawn [00:12:26]:

Funding wasn't great. Right? Access to computers and stuff like that. I mean, I remember as we had, like, these old Apple things, they're probably donated from somebody. I mean, it was Black and white situation. So it was very clear that the resources were very different from the high school I went to the resources that people I went to school had. I remember I remember that being very, very different, but I also remember being academically sound.

Adell Coleman [00:12:54]:

Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:12:55]:

In that way. So yeah.

Adell Coleman [00:12:59]:

I would say for me, so Penn State is pretty much all over the state of Pennsylvania. That's 30 plus campuses. And my 1st school was Barron, which is in Erie, which is literally at the tippy top of Pennsylvania. You could see Canada across the water. I'd say that to say it's kind of similar with, like, the small town vibe. I realized how much of a city person I was when I went there because I remember one time we caught the bus and thought it was going to come back and it never came back. Like, we were just waiting. Like, we're like, where's the bus? It's like 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

Adell Coleman [00:13:30]:

It never came back. But I think for me, growing up in DC and then being a part of, like, a big art scene was a big shock for me Because that wasn't the vibe where I went to school at. Like, I'm looking for, you know, people who like to go to plays and musicals and sing musical songs and write poetry. And it was a few of my friends, but not as deep, so that kind of took some transitioning for me. And I think also, I did have a few challenges academically, especially like math. Me and math are not friends. Math is not my buddy. He don't like me that much.

Adell Coleman [00:14:06]:

But I feel like to Anna's point where I might not necessarily have had a lot of resources available to me, you could see the difference. Like, my school did provide, like, tutors and there was a lot of technology. You know? There was a lot more advancements available. Things made available to by going to FPWI, then I had even experienced in high school. And I remember being in, like, a few math classes and been like, I don't get this. And you got that 1 person, like, we learned this in the 7th grade. I'm like, I didn't. You know? So, it did kind of take some adjustment for me the 1st year.

Shandra McDonald [00:14:37]:

Yeah.

Adell Coleman [00:14:37]:

And then, honestly, also, I was okay as far as the independence of taking care of myself because my I'm the only girl out of 2 brothers. I'm the baby girl, but I also was outside. So I knew how to kind of navigate spaces and get around. But I think just getting used to building your own schedule academically was kind of getting used to because I did overload my plate My 1st year there, I'm like, I'm a take this one and this one and that one. Like, I take 8 classes in high school. What's that in in college? A lot. A lot. You know? So I I learned very early, you know, about pacing myself, learning about how I learn.

Adell Coleman [00:15:14]:

Like, I'm better in the morning. I don't Do well. Didn't do well with PM classes. I was not there. I was there, but not there. And just kind of that adjustment was now I make my own schedule and, like, being intentional with how I move and strategizing, that was a bit of an adjustment for me, when I first got to school, but I figured it out by 2nd semester. Yeah. I was taking all those course credits.

Adell Coleman [00:15:36]:

Yikes.

Shandra McDonald [00:15:38]:

And for you, Anna, what about in fears? Did you have any fears while you were on campus?

Anna Deshawn [00:15:44]:

No. I was so ready to leave home. I was a little queer kid. I didn't know she was queer, and I just knew that I wanted to go leave home and figure it out. So, I didn't have fears about being on campus. Also, I'm pretty easy to get along with. I've never had a problem making friends or finding community, So I wasn't worried about any of that stuff. No.

Anna Deshawn [00:16:05]:

I didn't have any fears on campus. That's good.

Shandra McDonald [00:16:08]:

And what about any sense of overwhelm? Did either of you experience that? Like, not just it with it being like a PWI, but just like this is a college experience. I'm away from home. I know, Adele, you talked about, you know, trying to take 8 classes. Yeah. Did you experience any kind of just being feeling overwhelmed?

Adell Coleman [00:16:27]:

I think For me, my me becoming overwhelmed was not because necessarily of the class loads. It was because of what was happening at home. So, in my fresh freshman year of college, my parents started divorcing, and that was extremely tough because I was the last kid to leave home. You could kind of tell they were kind of waiting for me to leave. Both my parents will be calling me and kind of venting about the other while I'm trying to study, and that was just like a lot For me to balance because I felt like I was being forced to choose and, you know, it just took a very emotional toll, and I kind of find myself shutting down. Like, I just couldn't focus in class because of what was going on at home. At home is 8 hours away. My dad has left home.

Adell Coleman [00:17:13]:

My mom's in this big house alone. I was scared for her, you know, making sure that she was safe. It really, like, It really impacted me. I just wanted to, like, be home but not be home. Because when I did go home, I didn't want to be there because it felt different. And, you know, my dad and I relationship got strained because of some stuff he was doing. My mom and I did get closer, but then, like, I felt guilty about leaving, so then leaving and going back to school. So that did become a lot.

Adell Coleman [00:17:40]:

I would say a lot of the Burden because my family leans on me for a lot of stuff even back then. I've I dealt with a lot of internal guilt, while I was at school. It was Hard to focus. Like, when they were divorcing, like, I was scared for my grades. I remember being in a final and being like, I have no clue what this is. Wake up on me, man. I don't know what I'm looking at, but that did teach me that in this space, I kind of Realize that even with my parents, I had to set some limitations and boundaries, which was very new and very hard, but I wanted to be successful in school. So I had to kind of just figure out how to navigate that.

Adell Coleman [00:18:20]:

And that was that was very challenging while being a student.

Shandra McDonald [00:18:24]:

Yeah. I was I was going to ask you about, like, how did you overcome that? But it sounds like the setting of boundaries was

Adell Coleman [00:18:30]:

Yeah. Boundaries therapy. Like, my school offered a lot of therapy within my tuition. So, I will go see a on campus therapist, and then I would also, like, connect with one of my friends who was going through something similar. So, we kind of leaned into each other and just kind of telling my parents to not talk to me about the other parent, like, especially my Mom felt she had nobody to talk to. So, I literally called my grandma. I was like, talk to your daughter because I just felt like I can't. I can't.

Adell Coleman [00:19:01]:

Okay. So just kind of really Trying to help support her by putting people in her space that she could reach out to and that helped me. And then, like I said, it was straight on my dad so and I, we ended up not communicating as a result of it, which was heavy, but, you know, My therapist helped me a lot before I could do out there. Like, I was really happy that the campus offered that because that wasn't a resource that had been available to me, like, I can say for free because it was clearly part of my tuition, but, you know, it was more accessible to me than it happened before.

Shandra McDonald [00:19:33]:

Yeah. And what about you, Anna, any sense of feeling overwhelmed at any point?

Anna Deshawn [00:19:40]:

Oh, yeah. Because I was doing team too much. I stayed doing too much. And so, yeah, there was absolutely feelings of being overwhelmed, especially when I think when I was in that philosophy class and we had to be Foucault, and I'm like, child, what is Oh, I can say to me. Absolutely anything. So, yeah, there are definitely feelings of being overwhelmed By everything that was going on campus academically, socially, I was the president of our coalition of black students, so I had a lot of responsibility on campus. And I'm grateful for black administrators who kept their doors open where we could just go in there. There was 1 doctor Wanda Everett.

Anna Deshawn [00:20:20]:

We could go and watch the office. I don't know how many tears was cried in that office. She could probably fill up a whole pool. Okay. We just walk in, just start crying. And so really grateful for them and them being there. I don't think we talk a lot about what it means to sustain black admin and faculty at these Terry. Rural white universities, but, you know, as an adult, I I also understand I understood them, but I understand for real what it means to have to live there.

Anna Deshawn [00:20:46]:

You're you they're truly working for the students, not because they're trying to have a

Adell Coleman [00:20:50]:

life in

Anna Deshawn [00:20:51]:

in Des Moines, Iowa. Right. Right. So

Shandra McDonald [00:20:54]:

when it comes to, like, support systems, being able to see a therapist on campus is a form of having some type of support. But as far as, like, black students, how did you support one another, or did you? Like, what was that support system like?

Adell Coleman [00:21:06]:

Yeah. It was awesome. Like, my core group of friends there, like, a lot of folk would do a lot of things. We kind of promised each other when they did that look to your left, look to your right thing that we will hold on to each other and really, like, support each other and be helpful. So, you know, study, like finals week, we will hold each other accountable with study sessions, going together and studying. We would spend a lot of time in, like, the resource labs available on campus, like, working together. And even just, like, emotional support, like, over the weekends, like, you know, try to make ourselves available, hanging out. Like, we were really, really tight knit.

Adell Coleman [00:21:41]:

We did a lot of things on campus. Like Anna said, I was president of a few organizations, so That allowed us to kind of move around, you know, collectively. Because if I was president, we always president. That allowed for us to kind of Make a few things happen. And I think, you know, we used to even, like, gather in each other's rooms on the weekends, weekdays. You know, I live closer. My dorm was in the center of campus. So it was like the watering hole between classes because the rest of them kind of live upper and the hills a little away.

Adell Coleman [00:22:09]:

So, I would always have, like, snacks Available for them between classes. Come in my room, one of my friends sleep in my bed. Okay. Cool. You know, just kind of having that check-in system, you know, for all of us, you know, meeting up at Dobbins, which was our where we went to eat each night for dinner and just kind of making sure that all of us, you know, felt okay and provided a safe space of, like, Vincent. And we used to chat on each other with AOL Instant Messenger. That's how old I am. You know, just kind of talking to each other.

Adell Coleman [00:22:37]:

Just

Anna Deshawn [00:22:38]:

Just being there. I didn't.

Adell Coleman [00:22:40]:

Just being there. I did. I live for it though. Hey. Want to go grab a bite?

Anna Deshawn [00:22:45]:

I'm talking about the AOL part. . . . . Oh, yeah.

Adell Coleman [00:22:49]:

It's good.

Anna Deshawn [00:22:51]:

Let me clear. That's what uh-huh. Yeah. No. We were we were hella tight. I don't think 1 person went somewhere without the other. We held each other down, and it and it had to be that way. When you're the only person in class, Only person in your major.

Anna Deshawn [00:23:05]:

You're walking around in these spaces and constantly being the representation for a whole body of people. You just get exhausted and, you it's important to be with your people. So yeah. No. We were we had a great support system. It was one of the reasons I decided that Drake was going to be the place for me in the 1st place. Sumeet.

Adell Coleman [00:23:22]:

I have

Shandra McDonald [00:23:22]:

a question about joy. Joy. When you when you look back at your college experiences. What brings you joy?

Anna Deshawn [00:23:33]:

The community we built, I think we've left a legacy at the school with our work. That brings me a lot of joy. I think about the ways in which we fought back against administration, against racism, against Homophobia that happened on campus that brings me a lot of joy when I think about how we came together as community and the relationships that were built during that time. Yeah.

Shandra McDonald [00:23:59]:

I'm going to go to you next, Adele, with that same question, but I wanted to say, it seems like everybody seems to have a story about fighting back against the administration or, like, some teacher that needed

Anna Deshawn [00:24:09]:

to be ousted. It's like It'd be needing to happen. Okay? It'd be needing to happen. In my case, it was my 1st year on campus. It was one of our we have a hallmark event called Drake Relays that happens every year, and a black student was playing with a white student. It was a black man and a white woman, and they were actually dating, but someone thought that they were fighting. And they called the campus police on them. Police came, didn't ask no questions.

Anna Deshawn [00:24:35]:

Pepper sprayed everybody, took him down. It was awful. And we had to, we raced against the whole machine, shut down the Provost building and called the media, called held everybody to account for what for what happened. And at other times, we're fighting against the administration for budget to have programming for black students on campus. And honestly, sometimes it was for the entire Des Moines community that wanted to come to something black. You know, though yeah. That has to happen because if you don't, they'll forget that you're there Because they don't see you. Mhmm.

Anna Deshawn [00:25:15]:

And it's important for them to be reminded that your experience is not like everybody else's experience that they talk to.

Shandra McDonald [00:25:22]:

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Alright, Adele.

Adell Coleman [00:25:25]:

Get it, Anna. That was powerful.

Anna Deshawn [00:25:28]:

I'm okay with you. Whatever.

Adell Coleman [00:25:32]:

I think for me, it's definitely the community that we built. And also when I became a campus leader, I wanted to leave my mark on campus. I feel like I did that. My name is literally engraved on a wall there from the work that I did because I was president of a few organizations and some I'm more predominantly black, and then I was a black woman leading one of the whitest organizations on campus, which was the tour guides, the so the line ambassadors, which was the face and the first representation of campus. And so, I told people like, you need to see that there are black folk here too. So, I'm going to lead this organization, but what I realized in being a part of that and seeing how SGA work and leading the multicultural council, which is a council that oversees all the diverse programming on campus, the financial discrepancies. And so, I realized that there was you know, for certain organizations, they didn't have to fight as hard to get approved for their request for money as we did in MCC. So, I made sure to kind of create a board that oversaw direct funding for the minority students because they understand the minority programming.

Adell Coleman [00:26:42]:

And so just me kind of switching the system up allowed for a lot of students coming in as student leaders to have access to more financial money for their programs. So I'm very proud of that. There was I removed the gatekeeping and allowed for us to just kind of exercise over, you know, over our own self, which was great. So that's something I'm very, very proud of because it's still something that's in effect now. And, you know, when I go and visit Campos. If people see me and my face and nail on the wall, it's like, hey, that's her. Like, that's super dope. That's an amazing feeling.

Adell Coleman [00:27:14]:

Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:27:14]:

To

Adell Coleman [00:27:15]:

be able to go back and speak To, you know, other students up and coming and be something that they look up look up to and strive to be like. So that's Awesome. And, of course, my friends who I'm still very close with my core that I met there while at school.

Shandra McDonald [00:27:31]:

Look at y'all leaving legacies and whatnot.

Anna Deshawn [00:27:34]:

Yeah. I

Adell Coleman [00:27:35]:

was trying to be like, Anna, that's that's it. That's

Anna Deshawn [00:27:38]:

Lies.

Shandra McDonald [00:27:41]:

What did college teach you about yourself?

Adell Coleman [00:27:43]:

I would say that I'm stronger than I know. I always was told I was, you know, mature from my age and just a strong, but I realized just kind of really being out there on my own, Going through a lot of stuff, you know, mentally, emotionally, financially, spiritually, just trying to find my way And, you know, making it through and making it through successfully and building that community and, you know, coming out with my degree and persevering because I remember having one of my academic advisors tell me, she's like, what do you want to do? I was like, I want to do my own radio station or own my own something one day in audio production. And she was like, that's a dying fail. You should have to do that. This is like a 2 weeks before I graduated too, and I remember just being devastated. Like, how is she going to tell me now that she thinks that? Like, I've been saying it for the last 4 years. Like, what do you? But I remember when she said that and I was going to say it and I went back to her and was like, things only die if you allow them to. Lu.

Adell Coleman [00:28:45]:

Like, I'm going to accomplish whatever it is that I want to accomplish. You're going to hear my voice in this world whether you like it or not. And now, look at me. Out here guessing on podcasts, running companies.

Anna Deshawn [00:28:56]:

Yeah. You know? You better tell them people.

Adell Coleman [00:28:58]:

Podcast. Listen.

Anna Deshawn [00:29:00]:

Tell them again.

Adell Coleman [00:29:00]:

Uh-huh. You won't So now, like, what she be liking my stuff, I'll be like, mhmm. I'm all emoji.

Anna Deshawn [00:29:07]:

I see you.

Adell Coleman [00:29:08]:

Yes.

Anna Deshawn [00:29:09]:

I know that's right.

Shandra McDonald [00:29:12]:

Alright. What about you, Anna?

Anna Deshawn [00:29:13]:

Oh, please give me the question again. I got caught up saying, Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Shandra McDonald [00:29:18]:

Was. What did college teach you about yourself?

Anna Deshawn [00:29:22]:

That I was gay. Shout out. That's what I learned. I learned I was gay and that I was going to be alright. I mean, there's a much longer story there, but literally, I came to college not in not out. Everybody around me knew who I was, But I wasn't saying it, so they ain't know nothing. And then I wasn't out at home. And it was during that 1st year that it definitely settled in.

Anna Deshawn [00:29:51]:

Now. This is exactly who you are. And so yeah. And then coming into what that meant for me and how I move about in the world and Where I find community in that, but at the end of the day, it was, hey hey, little queer. Welcome. That's what I That's what I learned.

Shandra McDonald [00:30:09]:

So you had support as well.

Anna Deshawn [00:30:12]:

Yeah. It turns out, you know, the friends I had were also queer, Questioning, wondering, done some things, played around in some areas. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. They were just all, like, feminist, womanist, like, Let's walk around and be ourselves. I'm like, this is not how I grew up. But it was so incredibly liberating. It's incredibly liberating. And they said, we'll be your family if your family don't support you, you know, because I really at that time, I really did not know what was going to happen when I came out.

Anna Deshawn [00:30:46]:

Grew up in a very religious family, and they were like, we'll be here, you know, if all goes wrong, You know, and so it was, it was really, really great to have that community. So, everybody around me was some type of queer, or an ally, you know.

Shandra McDonald [00:31:02]:

Yeah. So, if you were designing a support system for black students, what would it include?

Anna Deshawn [00:31:09]:

Good food. K. It includes black food. Mhmm. It also it also includes fun board games. K? We have to have fun board games

Adell Coleman [00:31:18]:

and it's play. Kim. Going to say, like, a listserv to access to financial aid because I think

Anna Deshawn [00:31:26]:

that practical.

Adell Coleman [00:31:28]:

Yeah. I mean, you have to find out and bring the money. You know? I because I think about, like, you know, when you first go to school, it's like, Scholarship. But once you in there, it's not it's like you in there. But I feel like it was like something consistent throughout the years. Like, Hey. 2nd year scholarships. Here are the things you can apply to.

Adell Coleman [00:31:45]:

So some type of, like, grant list that you can get to get that. Yeah. In addition to food and good music. Good music. Yeah. Yeah. There's some music on it.

Shandra McDonald [00:31:55]:

Oh, a good playlist.

Adell Coleman [00:31:56]:

Good playlist.

Anna Deshawn [00:31:58]:

I would also probably say it's probably a resource guide or some kind of like all of the black college organizations and people can join so that, you know, I knew people who were in what's the black engineering one? NSBE. NSBE is very popular. Right? Connecting folks to those types of organizations, I think. On a

Adell Coleman [00:32:19]:

national scale. Yeah. Mhmm. Oh, you know what else too? For those folks that go To, like, small towns, knowing a list of, like, what's around you. Like, so here's a good spot for you black students because discovering that Oh, you're home.

Anna Deshawn [00:32:34]:

It wasn't that hard in Des Moines. No. Yeah. No. No.

Adell Coleman [00:32:38]:

When you first get here, here's where to go. He's with Vanderbilt. Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:32:42]:

Which is also very interesting, you know, in Des Moines because they would say, don't go that far west. I'm like, what's over there? It's a lecture talk?

Adell Coleman [00:32:49]:

What are you

Anna Deshawn [00:32:49]:

talking about?

Adell Coleman [00:32:50]:

You said I'm not scared of no west. What are you West Des Moines?

Anna Deshawn [00:32:54]:

Are you kidding me right now?

Adell Coleman [00:32:56]:

I'm from Chicago. Oh, that's good. I think it's cool when you first get to campus like that welcoming group, you know, so access to, like, minority students being part of like that welcoming group of like, hey, welcome to campus. This is the vibe, you know, those socials. Like we did an ice cream social Sensitive. That was awesome.

Shandra McDonald [00:33:18]:

Yeah. When you were saying, Anna, don't go west, it's kind of like Seeing things from, like, different perspectives. I work in Los Angeles, and so there's certain people who will say, well, Don't go east of the four zero five because that can be considered a bad neighborhood. Right? They also will send us to other places for training. And for me, I was like, I don't know where I'm going. So, it's just like the, the idea of, you know, what's a bad neighborhood for you. It's all it all is about the perspective because someone's like, don't go over there. And I was like, I might find my people over there.

Adell Coleman [00:33:52]:

Right.

Shandra McDonald [00:33:54]:

Another don't go over there is like, I need to make sure I can come back. Like, I have a total, Like, my fear is different.

Adell Coleman [00:34:00]:

Right.

Anna Deshawn [00:34:01]:

Facts. Absolutely.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:03]:

Yeah. Anna, what's what was your major, and what were you going to do with it when you graduated?

Anna Deshawn [00:34:10]:

For sure. I majored in radio TV production, and I minored in multicultural studies. And I was going off into the world to be the next Robin Roberts doing sports broadcasting on ESPN. That was the ultimate goal.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:23]:

Alright. I can

Adell Coleman [00:34:25]:

see that.

Anna Deshawn [00:34:27]:

Thanks, friend. Maybe it's still in my future.

Adell Coleman [00:34:30]:

It is. Listen.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:32]:

Hey. Why not?

Adell Coleman [00:34:35]:

Oh, yes. I majored in mass communications, and my goal was to own my own media and or radio station, company and do I don't create my own content.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:49]:

Well, look at that.

Anna Deshawn [00:34:50]:

I think you're doing it.

Adell Coleman [00:34:52]:

Am I? Oh, yeah.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:56]:

Okay. When I was in college, I wanted to be a probation officer.

Anna Deshawn [00:35:02]:

You're hammering down the law.

Shandra McDonald [00:35:07]:

Okay. I wanted to be a probation officer and

Anna Deshawn [00:35:11]:

That is something. How does that come about way to save

Adell Coleman [00:35:12]:

my show?

Shandra McDonald [00:35:13]:

Go ahead. I

Adell Coleman [00:35:14]:

know. We we are inquiring minds want to know why. Yeah. Right?

Shandra McDonald [00:35:18]:

So I wanted to be a probation officer, primarily because I had family members who were having problems with the law, and I didn't see them as bad people.

Anna Deshawn [00:35:34]:

Mhmm.

Shandra McDonald [00:35:34]:

And so I wanted to come more so from that angle. Like, how can I help? But while I was in school as a criminal justice major, there's always this swinging of the pendulum from corrections based to punishment based. And so just to date myself, the 3 strikes law became a thing when I was in college.

Anna Deshawn [00:35:55]:

Wow. Yeah.

Shandra McDonald [00:35:56]:

And so and so I was like, wow. Like, this is, like, not really why I wanted to major in criminal justice, and so I didn't end up Going down that route, eventually, I ended up doing something else altogether. But there was a time when I was thinking about, oh, maybe I want to go into interior design. And another time, I was like, oh, maybe want to go into journalism. So I was kind of, like, playing around with a few ideas, but the thing that stayed consistent for me was criminal justice. And totally not, Like, I don't have any passion for that. And so when I look at the space that I'm in and then I and the what brings me joy in this space, like what I'm doing now, And when I look at, like, what you 2 studied, you're so much more in alignment with what you went to school for.

Anna Deshawn [00:36:39]:

Adele and I doing work in the field we study, Communications is an anomaly. Okay? This is a saying. This is not the norm. People study communications and do absolutely anything out there

Adell Coleman [00:36:50]:

in the world. Pretty much. I got a journalism teacher. She wanted me to be a journalist so bad because I do enjoy writing. I minored in writing, but I just didn't want to be on deadlines Chasing people down, going to be writing. Yeah.

Shandra McDonald [00:37:05]:

Yeah. If you were to write a post on social media giving black students Three tips to survive their 1st year at a PWI. Oh. What would you say?

Anna Deshawn [00:37:15]:

Find new people, make a friend in financial aid, Go to class..

Adell Coleman [00:37:21]:

Cosign. Yes. Go to class. Pay attention in class. Okay? Yeah. I second that emotion. I don't know.

Shandra McDonald [00:37:35]:

I like that. Find your people, go to class, and find somebody in financial aid.

Adell Coleman [00:37:39]:

Yes. Like, befriend them. Like, don't just find them. Like, go sit with them, talk to them, Be their

Anna Deshawn [00:37:46]:

friend. Grow them.

Adell Coleman [00:37:48]:

Give them gifts. Bring them a drink. Bring them bring them lunch. Share. Draw them a picture. Anything. Mhmm. Show them pictures of your family.

Adell Coleman [00:37:57]:

Become family.

Anna Deshawn [00:37:59]:

Okay. Okay. If if we got a If we got, like, a 3 a option, I would say find a mentor

Adell Coleman [00:38:07]:

Mhmm.

Anna Deshawn [00:38:08]:

On campus Yeah. To help you navigate.

Adell Coleman [00:38:10]:

Yeah. And don't be afraid to push yourself. You know? So I feel like the realest thing I've learned even in talking to a lot of folk on our pod, College is definitely what you make it, you know. So a lot of people would be like, I didn't have that much fun. I didn't really like it. Like, they didn't really do a lot, you know. They just kind of stayed in their rooms, but the folk that kind of push themselves a little more to engage their peers, participate, like, had a lot of the great college experiences. So I I always call myself the introvert extrovert introverted because I definitely get full of people after a while, like, okay.

Adell Coleman [00:38:41]:

I'm going to back at myself. But I I found myself really, like, pushing myself to kind of get to know more folk around campus, and that worked well for me.

Anna Deshawn [00:38:48]:

Mhmm.

Shandra McDonald [00:38:49]:

Yeah. I didn't know anybody in financial aid, but that would have been super helpful because when I was in when I was in college, you had to line up to get your check, D. Financial Research. And it was a line that wrapped around the

Adell Coleman [00:39:04]:

beginning. And

Shandra McDonald [00:39:07]:

it didn't come until, like, weeks Into

Adell Coleman [00:39:10]:

Oh, wow.

Shandra McDonald [00:39:10]:

The into the 1st semester. So it wasn't until, you know, I got the hang of things eventually. It's like I got of save some of this money from the from the last disbursement to take me into the 1st semester of the next year because the money doesn't come before the books are required.

Adell Coleman [00:39:27]:

That's true. Yeah. So you had to make the friends because miss Felicia would call us. Like, hey, though. There's a scholarship coming, money coming down, coming on Tuesday at 10. Okay.

Shandra McDonald [00:39:39]:

Yeah. Okay. So my Final question is, what advice would you have to black students graduating this year?

Adell Coleman [00:39:48]:

I would say give yourself grace because I think and I said it doesn't happen, but a lot of folk graduate thinking they just going to go and start that That big time, big paying off job. I'm just going to be living in the dough, and it doesn't always work that way. And this is for somebody who graduated right when everything crashed and burned in 2009, and, the world was on fire. Yes. I had a guaranteed job and lost it before I graduated. Like, that's yeah. And so I I was really, like, hard on myself because I just could not find. And even though it was, like, everyone was going through it, I just really took it personally.

Adell Coleman [00:40:22]:

Like, I did 4 years and got this degree for what? You know? So just give yourself grace and be open to other opportunities because you never what may lead you to something else. And as I always say, every contact is a connection. So not being afraid to go to, like, networking events and just Talking to people and get to know because you never know who may be able to connect you to your next job.

Shandra McDonald [00:40:46]:

Anything you want to add to that,

Anna Deshawn [00:40:47]:

Donna? Yes. Everything Adele said.

Adell Coleman [00:40:52]:

You go, my mother.

Anna Deshawn [00:40:56]:

But I will expand on the networking piece. That is the part that no one learns in school. It is not a course that people take. It is not. And it I believe it should be. Because in this life, your network is your network. So who do you know? Who are your you know, people say, like, your friends are a reflection of you. Who are your friends? Are they making money? Do they have jobs? Are they are they moving up in their career? Are they going in the same direction you're going? Who do they, though? Yo.

Anna Deshawn [00:41:22]:

You need to do some personal inventory. So, I I'll double down on the networking part of this. At some point in your life, you should get to a point where you don't need a resume. And are you building yourself to get to that place? So network, and I'll also double down on the staying open part because whatever you measured in, that could very well not be what you end up doing. So stay open to the possibilities of the thing because it is about school and finishing school is so much more about the fact that you could begin and end something Then then a specific course that you took during that time.

Shandra McDonald [00:41:56]:

Yes.

Anna Deshawn [00:41:56]:

It it is it is the display that I know how to complete something. Right? So step into the world with that.

Shandra McDonald [00:42:04]:

Yeah.

Adell Coleman [00:42:04]:

Absolutely. You see why I keep her close? She just be preaching Anna. Anna just be on fire. Look at that. See? That's why I locked in right there. That's who I know. I know Anna.

Shandra McDonald [00:42:18]:

That's your network. Right?

Adell Coleman [00:42:19]:

Right. Yep. My network big because I know Anna, so I'm good. I'm locked in.

Anna Deshawn [00:42:25]:

Please know I feel the same way. Okay. Do not let her fool you at all, period.

Shandra McDonald [00:42:30]:

Yes. Well, is there anything else you might want to share before we close out?

Adell Coleman [00:42:35]:

Check out the head nod.

Anna Deshawn [00:42:37]:

Boom, boom, boom,

Shandra McDonald [00:42:41]:

boom. Alright. Where can where can, where can they find you? U.

Adell Coleman [00:42:44]:

You can find me on IG and x, formerly known as Twitter, at I am Adele Coleman, spelled a d e l l. I am not the singer, so I am Adele Coleman. Yeah.

Anna Deshawn [00:42:56]:

And you can find me at Anna John across all social media. Just choose your favorite platform. And then I'll also give a quick plug to our podcast production company that's producing content at the intersections of race and sexuality called the cube, t a g q u b e. And I think if you're looking for more podcasts by black and brown creators and you don't know where to go? The cube is your spot.

Shandra McDonald [00:43:19]:

Thank you so much for coming to the Academic Survival Podcast. It was fun. You both shared really good Content that I believe 1st year students can glean from, so I appreciate that.

Adell Coleman [00:43:31]:

Yeah. Thanks for having us.

Shandra McDonald [00:43:38]:

That's it for today on academic survival. If you want to share your story on how you survived your freshman year of college. You can reach me at info@shandralmcdonald.com. We'll be back next week with more ways to survive your academic journey. Until then, happy studying.