From Howard University to Law Enforcement: Officer Jill's Story

Officer Jill [00:00:05]:
Can't get away from crime since it's, unfortunately, a part of society. Right? But Right. You can you can learn how to to mitigate it, manage it, right, and navigate it, I should say. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's it's all part of the planning process, I think. Yeah. No. Don't go in there blind, though.

Officer Jill [00:00:19]:
Don't go in there and just say you're gonna figure out the night that you're drinking, now you need to figure out what's going on. You're not thinking clearly. Right? Because you're Mhmm. You're intoxicated. Right? Yeah. So I think that's probably the biggest thing I would encourage people to do. Go to the actual campus police station and ask them, hey. What how what services are available? What do you provide? What can I do if this happens or whatever? Right? And they'll bring out the whole list because that's their job, is is that campus.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:00:51]:
That's officer Jill, just in time for back to school season. On this episode, we have a special conversation as we talk about the unique college experience of attending an HBCU. In her case, Howard University. And then we transition to a discussion about law enforcement and personal safety. We also chat about her podcast, The Human Side with officer Jill, where she aims to bridge the gap between law enforcement and the community. This is the academic survival podcast, and I'm your host, doctor Chandra McDonald. Statistics show that approximately 40% of students drop out of college every year. In fact, nearly 30 percent drop out their 1st year.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:01:42]:
Well, I am on a mission to improve these stats. Welcome to the academic survival podcast. Today, I have with me officer Jill. Hey, Jill. Welcome to the program.

Officer Jill [00:01:56]:
Thank you. Hello. Hello.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:01:58]:
Hey. I am so excited to have you here today. We're gonna get into oh my gosh. So much stuff. We're gonna talk about law enforcement, and we're also gonna talk about HBCUs. So I feel like I get a 2 for out of you.

Officer Jill [00:02:14]:
Yes. I'm excited. It's 2 things that I I love and have contributed a lot to to who I am. So I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:02:22]:
Yay. Alright. So let's start off with what college did you attend and where is it located?

Officer Jill [00:02:29]:
Okay. So I have to preference. I I I attended 2 colleges. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:02:33]:
Okay. The one

Officer Jill [00:02:33]:
I I I love, There's a there's a different place in in my heart for each one. So I and I'll explain a little later why this happened, but Absolutely. I attended 2 colleges. I went to a junior college, and then I attended the Grand Ole Howard University in Washington DC, the original h u. Just wanna make that very clear.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:02:56]:
The original h u. I love it. So you started off at City College, and then you ended up in Washington DC. Like, what made you leave California for the East Coast?

Officer Jill [00:03:08]:
You know what? It's really weird. I I am definitely a fun in the sun type of gal, and it's a different climate there. But I also love I love the cold weather. I love the cold weather. And, ultimately, it's just it it's always been a a dream of mine to go to a historical black college. It's something that I've always seen as very prestigious. Right? You grew up watching The Cosby Show. Right? You saw Phylicia Rashad and Bill Cosby wearing the Howard Sweaters, and they were doctors.

Officer Jill [00:03:39]:
Right? So, you know, and even a different world. Right? Where they're wearing Yeah. Sort of black college sweaters. And it just it's always been something I've always been amazed at and want to kind of be a part of.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:03:51]:
So then when you showed up at at Howard University, did you I guess you had already declared a major by then? Or

Officer Jill [00:03:57]:
Yeah. So I I've always wanted to be a police officer my entire life. I I can very vividly remember back in the 3rd grade when I fell in love with policing. The DARE program. You remember the DARE program back then? I may be aging myself a bit here, but the DARE program in the in the sheriff's department, they came to my school and I fell in love in the 3rd grade with policing. And from then, I was a police officer. Right? And so I knew that and I always been taught, you go to school first. Right? Before you get that career, you go to college first.

Officer Jill [00:04:29]:
Right? Which I'm glad that I did. So, obviously, I already had a a criminal justice or actually it was called administration of justice at Howard University mindset before I went there. And and that's what they offered. And yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:04:42]:
As you transitioned from City College and then ended up at Howard University, now you're at a predominantly black university. So tell me a little bit about that community. Like, how would you describe the sense of community and the support at Howard University?

Officer Jill [00:04:56]:
Yes. We talk about this a lot with other alumnis from HBCU HBCUs, and it's really hard to describe it, but I'll try. For me, I didn't grow up with a lot of folks that look like me. I grew up in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood, which is fine. It's great because I I I think it gave me an opportunity to see other cultures and experience other cultures. And so going to Howard University and walking on campus and seeing people that look like you Yeah. That were there for such a positive reason, it it's inspiring. It was so inspiring seeing that.

Officer Jill [00:05:32]:
You know? It wasn't something I was used to. I was always the only one black girl, the second only black student. Right? Yeah. In every class that or any any setting, any community setting, I was always the only black person or maybe there may be 2 or 3 other additional. Right? So to go to a school where 80% of the students look like you, you know, 90, 80% of of the instructors, the professors look like you. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:06:02]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:06:02]:
The buildings are named by people are named of people who look like you. It was it's it's very inspiring. It's very encouraging and kind of kind of a bit of a culture shock, if I'm honest. It was it was a culture shock

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:06:15]:
for me. In what way?

Officer Jill [00:06:18]:
Like I said, just like I I couldn't I wasn't used to it. I guess it's just it wasn't a bad culture shock. It was more so, like, I just wasn't accustomed to it. I wasn't used to it. Right? So you have to kinda adjust, if you will.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:06:34]:
It was a good adjustment. Yeah. That's a good adjustment. And I just can imagine, like, just knowing that there's just certain things you don't have to explain. Yeah. Certain things that you don't have to, you know, whether it's from hair to

Officer Jill [00:06:47]:
Yeah. Yes. No one's asking to touch your hair. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:06:54]:
Yeah. And then just and just, like, knowing that if you if you didn't do well, that it's not attributed to your race because

Officer Jill [00:07:04]:
Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:07:05]:
Right. It's like Everyone's not. Right?

Officer Jill [00:07:07]:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's that's all. Yeah. I I agree 100%. It is.

Officer Jill [00:07:13]:
It's very it was just very encouraging. I guess that's all I can I can really say? It's hard to put it into words. And and I think we we struggle describing it because it's something very internal. You know? Yeah. You just you just feel it. You know?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:07:26]:
One of the things that I've noticed from the people that I have encountered that graduated from HBCUs, I just kinda felt like they just moved differently. They I feel like they just have a different sense of knowing who they are.

Officer Jill [00:07:41]:
Mhmm.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:07:41]:
And just a a greater sense of, like, I'm unstoppable. Like, that's the thing that I noticed. And I think, like, you know, I think maybe even part of that is that because when you're when your education, you're not battling the other things that are microaggressions or just anything that's, like, could creep in to make you feel like I'm inferior. I'm not worthy. I don't belong here. Like, none of that. You're not battling that along with trying to learn. Right.

Officer Jill [00:08:09]:
Right. And Absolutely.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:08:11]:
Yeah. So then being at an HBCU, you, you know, there's obviously traditions at all universities, but are there any specific traditions that you felt like were unique to Howard University or unique to being at an HBCU?

Officer Jill [00:08:27]:
Oh, abs absolutely. You say that, and it takes me back to my very first football game. Right? I think football games on every campus are are fun. Right? We enjoy them. It's a good time for everyone to come together and have a good time. But for Howard as far as Howard University, and I think all h all HBCUs do this, I will never forget. We're sitting in the stands, and the game's about to start. And first, they play the National Black Anthem.

Officer Jill [00:08:53]:
Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:08:54]:
Mhmm.

Officer Jill [00:08:54]:
And as they play the National Black Anthem, every single fist in the crowd goes up in the air. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:09:04]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:09:05]:
And if if you're and it's it's it's not well, I mean, I guess it's associated to black power, but it's it's also a sense of camaraderie, right, and togetherness. And I remember looking around because I've never it's my first time at the game, and I don't know what's going on. I look around. I'm like, oh my goodness. And I put my fist in the air, and we're singing. And you can literally have I mean, I have I get goosebumps even with the American national anthem. I I I just love that sense of pride and patriotism. And then it also I get that Scott, that same feeling when I was experiencing that.

Officer Jill [00:09:37]:
And so I think that's probably for me, that's one of the biggest traditions that I will never forget. Obviously, there there are others that that you can't deny, like homecoming.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:09:48]:
Okay. Okay.

Officer Jill [00:09:49]:
The homecoming experience at a HBCU is unmatched. Okay. It is absolutely unmatched. All the different events that are going on, the bands, the battle of the bands. Yeah. I mean, it's just an amazing experience. And then you have just like and if outside of, like, your, I guess, grand events like homecoming or football game. You have a basic Wednesday where people are meeting on the yard.

Officer Jill [00:10:19]:
Right? They're just midday. Yeah. I know you're like, what is that? If you go to to Howard, you know what that is. That's just basically like midday, lunch, after class, and everyone just comes to the middle of the campus, this grassy area, and you're just hanging out. And you're talking, you're eating, you're doing whatever you're doing. And it's like and it's usually when the the fraternities and the sororities come out.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:10:41]:
And it's when

Officer Jill [00:10:41]:
you find out who's pledging, who's not, and, you know, just stuff like that. It's just Yeah. It I wasn't I wasn't a part of the whole fraternity, sorority thing. It wasn't my thing. But it's obviously very it's huge on on especially at Howard's campus because it's where a lot of the the black sororities and fraternities originated. So you can imagine the kind of impact they have on the campus.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:11:03]:
Absolutely. So I imagine that there must have been even an extra an extra sense of pride when knowing that our vice president came from how Howard University.

Officer Jill [00:11:13]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, look. She's the first female, right, in that position, in that position of authority in our entire country. Right? So, obviously, you cannot be proud. No matter where you stand politically, whether you agree with what she does or doesn't, that's a pretty big accomplishment. And to know that someone who went to Howard University accomplished that, I can't I can't knock it. I I I applaud it.

Officer Jill [00:11:38]:
Right? I applaud it for sure. Well, let's sit down and talk with her. We can talk about some things, but talk about A couple.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:11:47]:
Go ahead. Officer your officer Jill Yeah. Conversations. Yes.

Officer Jill [00:11:51]:
That's some things I have, some questions I have for her. But I I applaud her her accomplishment 100%.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:11:59]:
So as far as, like, your any, like, challenges or growth, like, what were some of the challenges you faced while attending Howard, and how did you overcome them?

Officer Jill [00:12:08]:
You know, I think for me, one, like I said, it wasn't a negative challenge, but it was a it was an adjustment to be around people that that look like me just because I wasn't used to it. Right? So it had to and and I it kinda sounds I don't know how to act around black folks, but I did. But it just was an adjustment just seeing everyone that looked like you. I think challenges I think their challenges are similar to you have at any college, to be honest with you. Just trying to manage your time. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:12:41]:
Because of

Officer Jill [00:12:43]:
the it's a bit of a party school. I'll be honest. It's a it's it's a bit of a party school. But one thing is that I think that is big about Howard's at it's big education wise. Like, you have let's say people are going out, but they're in class the next day. You know what I mean? Like, there's a commitment to pursuing success. Right? And then they all they also have to learn that balance of having a good time. Right? Enjoying yourself.

Officer Jill [00:13:10]:
Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:13:10]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:13:11]:
Making friends. Right? Meeting new people in all these different settings. So I think for me, I I would say it's probably the same on on most campuses where you're trying to learn how to manage your time and enjoy the experience Okay. At the same time, if that makes sense.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:13:26]:
Yeah. And that's and that's pretty much your general college experience. Right? So okay.

Officer Jill [00:13:33]:
Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:13:34]:
With you deciding to go into law enforcement and knowing from, you know, a very young age that I I wanna be, you know, a law enforcement officer, was there any law enforcement, like, preparation? I don't know. Like, I guess what I'm I guess what I'm asking is, like, we know that there are tough conversations to be had between law enforcement and specifically the black community. So are was that part of your education, law enforcement, black community? Did you experience anything that would address that dynamic or that intersectionality?

Officer Jill [00:14:09]:
You mean at Howard? Do you think something contribute to

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:14:11]:
like, was there anything that attributed that could have shaped you professionally in that regard?

Officer Jill [00:14:17]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I I actually back in February, I was asked to speak on this panel at a at a high school, and it was basically kind of not the comparison, but explaining the differences between HBCU and

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:14:31]:
a PWI.

Officer Jill [00:14:32]:
W I. Right. A predominantly white institute versus a historic black or HBCU. Right? So and they asked this question, you know, if if has me attending HBCU contribute to, you know, my job. Right? And has it influenced? And one thing I can say unequivocally is is absolutely yes. It when you go to a school like Howard, and like I mentioned before, you know, the buildings, the classroom buildings, the administrative building, everything is named after these change makers in history. Right? Mhmm. Big contributors to the things that we as black people get to enjoy now.

Officer Jill [00:15:11]:
Right? Certain rights that were not available then. Right? They contribute to that. And we also know that the history of law enforcement and the black community is not good. Right? Hasn't the history of it just isn't. It is what it is. We can't deny it. It happened. And so going to Howard really encouraged me to continue to pursue that this career in law enforcement so that I can also be some sort of of change maker in the right direction when it comes to improving the relationship between law enforcement and the community.

Officer Jill [00:15:45]:
So so, yeah, it it it was a huge, huge contributor to to me staying focused and following the path to being a police officer, which it was a little shaky getting here, I'll be honest. But

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:15:59]:
How so?

Officer Jill [00:15:59]:
So after graduating after college, it took me about 2 years to get hired after college. Right? I have my degree in administration of justice because this always was the plan. I was a a law abiding citizen. Right? I was living a life that ensured that I, you know wait.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:16]:
Wait. I have a quick story. Living a life as a long law abiding citizen. Like, I'm gonna get back to this, but let me tell you. Go for it. I had a class. I was a criminal justice major, and I had a class where during during the summer, we visited correctional facilities.

Officer Jill [00:16:34]:
K.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:35]:
So we went to Chino. We went to Terminal Island.

Officer Jill [00:16:40]:
Oh, wow.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:40]:
We went to civil brand. Like, if you remember that, that's like now you thought you were dating yourself.

Officer Jill [00:16:46]:
Now I'm

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:46]:
dating myself.

Officer Jill [00:16:47]:
You went way back. Civil Brand.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:50]:
Civil Brand. Okay. How about this? California Youth Authority went there.

Officer Jill [00:16:53]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:16:55]:
Yeah. So we've we visited all these places. But before you visit, part of the, like, registering for the class is you have to sign up, and they gotta do a background check on you before you can even go on this field trip because they're gonna let it literally let you into the facilities. Like, literally, we had we ate with inmates. We, like, you're gonna be in the facilities. Right?

Officer Jill [00:17:15]:
What an experience.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:17:16]:
And so I know. It was it was a really good experience. Oh, even Los Padrinos. Is Los Padrinos still open?

Officer Jill [00:17:22]:
Kind of. Yes. No. Okay. There's there's there's a lot of issues going on with our youth authority right now. Okay. Whole lot of issues.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:17:30]:
So one of my classmates who wanted to attend the, you know, the summer the summer school session, I overheard. The professor let him know, like, you can't you ain't pass the background check. Like, they ain't gonna let you in. Like, I don't know exactly what happened. I don't know if he had outstanding tickets or what the deal was. But they were like he was the professor was like, you can't come on this

Officer Jill [00:17:53]:
Oh, wow.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:17:53]:
Field trip. So that speaks to, you know, like, if you wanna go into law enforcement Yeah. Please be a law abiding citizen. You do have to, like, have a background check.

Officer Jill [00:18:03]:
Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:18:05]:
So you were so as you were saying, you were a law abiding citizen, but it took you 2 years to to come on board. So continue there.

Officer Jill [00:18:12]:
It did. Like I said, I I knew what I wanted to do. So I was doing things that wouldn't prevent me from passing a background check. Right? I I will say now, some said, well, that wasn't law abiding. I'll I'll tell you guys what happened. I have no problem because I mentioned this on my background. It wasn't something that I lied about. I didn't I didn't drink often.

Officer Jill [00:18:30]:
I didn't Mhmm. Do drugs, right, for obvious reasons. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've been drunk. Right? So I like I said, I was pursuing this life. And so when I got out of when I graduated college, I started the process of applying to a bunch of different agencies. And the first agency that I applied to was in Orange County. And

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:18:49]:
Orange County, California?

Officer Jill [00:18:51]:
Orange County, California. Yes. I applied, and I didn't get through the 1st screening page. So before you even can take the test, they give you, like, a paper that has a bunch of about 10, 12 questions. So just basic stuff. Right? Have you committed felony? You know, do you do drugs right now? Back to this before marijuana was recreational. Right? Before it was legal. And so one of the questions they ask is, have you ever, you know, consume drugs? Right? If if you have, when, how how did you do it? And I put I put in yes, but let me explain why.

Officer Jill [00:19:23]:
K. I need to be very clear. Okay? I let me preface. I don't get people in trouble, but let's just say this. I literally literally tasted like a pinch no bigger than a nail size of a a homemade weed brownie in college. Right? And that was my experience. That was my experience with drugs, like, legit. That was my experience with drugs.

Officer Jill [00:19:49]:
And because I knew I didn't do drugs, I put it down there. I was honest. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:19:54]:
I put it down there.

Officer Jill [00:19:55]:
And when they saw that, they said, oh, you've used drugs. Come back in 2 years. Oh, wow. That's what they told me. And talk about crushing. Right? I was like, what? I'm not I don't do drugs. I don't smoke weed. Like, I don't even use foul language.

Officer Jill [00:20:14]:
Right? That's how anyone knows me. I don't even use curse words. If you sketch a music curse word, then you caught me really in a bad time. Right? You pushed me to the to the limit. But I was, obviously, I was devastated, but I I did continue to apply to other agencies. And I I found that this that one disqualification thing about policing. Of course, they share information, right, when it comes to hiring because they wanna make sure they get the right candidate in

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:20:41]:
the room

Officer Jill [00:20:41]:
that they can trust. Right? You have a lot of responsibility as a police officer. And so it kinda followed me. Right? And so and, you know, and I'm not gonna lie. I got discouraged got discouraged along the way. But thank God, 2 years later, essentially, police department LA was able to see that, hey. You know what? This is good. This is this is a good candidate.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:21:02]:
She can make a difference. Right. Exactly.

Officer Jill [00:21:04]:
And and

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:21:05]:
We need her on our team.

Officer Jill [00:21:07]:
Right. Right. And they hired me. But it was it was a long 2 years, but it was also a a a learning and a development. I will say that it was a development process for me, for sure, those 2 years. I I am a a woman of faith, and I believe that God used those 2 years to really and truly prepare me mentally and emotionally for the job that I had to take on. So.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:21:28]:
Wow. That's a long

Officer Jill [00:21:30]:
time. Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:21:31]:
And it also sounds like you went from California to DC and then back to California.

Officer Jill [00:21:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:21:39]:
That there's a lot of times when people go out of state for school, they don't come back home.

Officer Jill [00:21:43]:
Yeah. You I did. And and and it wasn't because I didn't like to see. I actually loved it in DC. I really did. And, I mean, like I said, I think that I am where I'm supposed to be right now in this day and age. But I do look back, and I'm like, man, I should have applied for the agencies in DC. You know, I did it, but, you know, it is what it is.

Officer Jill [00:22:03]:
I think everything worked out the way it's supposed to work out, but I loved it in DC. It's just DC is a great place to be. It really is.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:22:09]:
It really is. It's a whole different, it's a whole different energy. Just the, the historical.

Officer Jill [00:22:17]:
Yeah. It

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:22:17]:
just feels like you're, you're just walking through history when you're there. That's how it's going.

Officer Jill [00:22:23]:
That's a great way. That's a great way to put it, and you're absolutely right. I will say, though, Howard has changed. The surrounding area when I went there I'm just keeping real. The surrounding area around Howard was hood. It was not the best neighborhood at all at all. Yeah. But now it is it has been gentrified y'all.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:22:45]:
That's a thing now. That's a thing now. Because I remember USC used to be that way too. Right? Neighborhood around USC.

Officer Jill [00:22:52]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's alright. It made me tough though.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:22:59]:
So as a black woman and a law enforcement officer, how do you navigate the complexities and, like, potential conflicts that arise from these intersecting identities?

Officer Jill [00:23:11]:
Oh, that's a good question. How do I navigate that? I have learned to navigate well. I will be honest, earlier in my career, it was a challenge. It really was.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:23:21]:
With being a woman or being a black woman? Because it, like, you're also, like, in a male dominated Yes. You've got all this going on. Okay.

Officer Jill [00:23:28]:
And they're they're they're they both add challenges. Right? They both and they're and they're slightly different. Right? They're slightly different, but the same because obviously one's race and one one isn't. Yeah. You you as a as a woman, you are and we talk about this all the time as women in law enforcement. It is a male dominant role. So there's always gonna be you're always in that like, let for for example, let's say there's a a specialized unit in the police department, and there will always only be it's like this unwritten rule. There's always only 1 female in that unit.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:24:01]:
Oh, wow.

Officer Jill [00:24:01]:
Yeah, it's weird. This is weirdest thing. Like, you'll never you'll always see, let's say, if there's 10 people in the unit, you're going to see 9 men and one woman, Right? Which is challenging. It's very rare to see multiple women in one type of specialized unit. So there are some similarities where you're you're I don't say the oddball, but you're kind of just that I don't wanna say token because token means that you didn't earn it. Right? Right. But, yeah, there there's that that correlation, I should say. Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:24:32]:
But then it gets, as I would say, for a black female, early in my career, and I remember actually in the academy, I'll never forget this, just before the academy. Before you go in, you go to, like, this orientation. Right? And they encourage you to bring your families where they explain kind of what to expect, right, in in ways in which your family can contribute to you being successful in the academy. Right? Because it's a 6 month for us, it's 6 months, and it's it's it's rigorous. Right? It's it could be very mentally taxing. Right? And so they explained all these things to you, and I remember it was over and my sister came with me. I went over to one of the instructors, and we just kinda asked her, hey. What advice would you give me? Meaning, my sister would say, what advice would you give Jill? You know, just moving forward.

Officer Jill [00:25:20]:
And it was just very general. And but I I I appreciate her for recognizing that I'm a black female here. Right? She wasn't black either. But she said, listen. I I want you to listen to me. There's gonna be it's gonna be challenges where you you guys are gonna see her change a bit. Right? You're gonna see a shift in the way that she thinks and the things that she does that may seem odd. And I took it as she was speaking to, you know, it's gonna be hard being a black person in uniform in Los Angeles.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:25:54]:
Right? Mhmm.

Officer Jill [00:25:55]:
And she said, you know what? But you also see that as she learns and she develops, she's gonna get more and more comfortable within her skin and her uniform, and you'll see the transition back to her being normal. Oh. And I can tell you, I 1,000,000 percent I didn't know what she was talking about that fully know what she meant. But as I lived it, I will say the first, maybe 4 or 5 years, it was challenging because people would question my blackness. Yeah. I'll just be honest. They'll question my blackness. They'll say I sold out to the man.

Officer Jill [00:26:31]:
Right? And I had a my partner, he was actually my classmate. He was a black male. So you can imagine we would get it like crazy from from our quote, unquote own people. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:26:42]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:26:43]:
And you learn how to, I guess, accept it, I guess. I don't know. But I don't know if one is that word accept. You just learn how to cope with it and manage it, and then you get to a point where you're comfortable. You can actually engage and and explain things like, hey. Look. What's wrong with me being in this position? Yes. I know what this uniform and this badge may represent to you because of the history, but let me tell you what it really is.

Officer Jill [00:27:10]:
Right? Let me tell you what it's really like. And and I'm here because I wanna make sure that history doesn't repeat itself. Right? One of the reasons. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:27:19]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:27:20]:
And so so it was challenging at first, but I definitely as I got more more comfortable and just kinda engaged and didn't run from those conversations with people who questioned my blackness, and I can have that intelligent conversation, it's definitely I became more more okay with it, I guess. More comfortable with it, if that that kinda answered your question.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:27:41]:
Absolutely. So what was your reaction last week when because I'm assuming you saw the video of the previous president getting shot. What was your what was your reaction to the number of women who were on that secret service detail?

Officer Jill [00:28:02]:
You know what? I didn't know how many women. Was there an extreme amount Or was there an excessive amount?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:28:07]:
I just kept see I saw a woman helping him down the stairs.

Officer Jill [00:28:11]:
I did see that.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:28:12]:
When they were putting him in the car, I saw the same woman, but then I saw another woman next to her and then another I was like, he has a lot of women on his detail. You know what?

Officer Jill [00:28:23]:
To be honest, I I don't think I I noticed. Well, I did you know, and after you think about it, and I'm I'm actually replaying what I saw, I probably did see more than you would normally see. Yeah. I do remember seeing a clip of someone I don't know who the guy was, but I think one of the first thing he said was that this was a result of a DI situation. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:28:43]:
I was like, really?

Officer Jill [00:28:45]:
Are you kidding me? The fact that someone who was suffering from mental illness, basically, right, who was bullied and whatnot decided to do this has nothing to do with, you know, women being hired. I mean, I'll tell you this. I am gonna I'm and I'm I may be biased in saying this. What I have found Now no no shade to, my men, law enforcement. I appreciate you. I pre I know that there's a difference in our our physical bodies, so I appreciate working with men. Right? Because there are definitely some parts in this profession where having that physical strength is gonna make a difference. Right? You could be fighting for your life, and I'd rather be fighting with a 6, 7 man, right, than a a 4 or 5, 80 pound woman.

Officer Jill [00:29:30]:
I'm just gonna keep it real. Right? There's just differences. However, I will say that I have also seen that women one of the benefits of having a woman officer is that we are really, really, really good communicators. Thought you were gonna say something else. What did you think I was gonna say?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:29:47]:
I thought you were gonna talk about marksmanship. I thought you were gonna say, we are really good. Shooters.

Officer Jill [00:29:52]:
We are. No. That too. That's that's awesome. And then maybe I'm thinking more on a a local level as far as policing, right, where being able to communicate with people is huge. Right? You're not doing too much sniper shooting when it comes to local law enforcement. Right? But no. You're right.

Officer Jill [00:30:07]:
You're absolutely right. And that's actually what they told us in the academy, that women tend to be the better shooters. We have a a more steady hand. But and that's another benefit. Right? So to say that or to question the fact that there were women, you know, Secret Service officers and this happened, I don't I don't think it's fair. Right? I think Yeah. It it's an unfortunate thing that happened. It should have never happened no matter where you stand with with Trump or Biden.

Officer Jill [00:30:33]:
It's not okay to take a shot, a literal shot

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:30:37]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:30:38]:
At at any political candidate for any reason. So but yeah. Hey. People are gonna say that. You're always gonna get that. Oh, it was a woman. There's always in in this law enforcement community, unfortunately, there's gonna be kind of a negative, you know, shadow over women that it's not a it's not a woman's job. You shouldn't be doing this.

Officer Jill [00:30:58]:
But I think I think a lot of us women are proven otherwise.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:31:03]:
That's right. So the whole history of HBCUs, one of the things is that that I always hear is that the network is phenomenal. Like, you know, you you you go to this school, you establish these bonds, and they're they're like lifelong bonds. Yeah. How was the network and connections you made at Howard University helped you in your career, if at all, considering that you, you know, you left DC and ended up in California?

Officer Jill [00:31:36]:
Yeah. I think it's definitely something that you you pick up on. Whenever something you find that someone went to to Howard, you're like, oh, you went to Howard, and you do the you do the the bison, and they finish the litter. You know? Right? That's the official bison call. Right? Okay. So you just have, like, that camaraderie. I I can't say that I have well, I take that back. I have met people that were nor not in my class.

Officer Jill [00:32:00]:
Right? May not have been in my class, but once you find out that you went to the same school, you're like, hey. What do you do? How can I be of assistance? Some kind of you know, any kind of way. A friend of mine who who works in entertainment. Right? And and I have a podcast. He kinda gives me advice and things of what to do and things like that. And so there is a a natural, camaraderie that comes with that when you find that someone works or someone went to the to the same school. I don't think it's any different than anything. Well, I don't even wanna say that.

Officer Jill [00:32:26]:
Yeah. I think it is a little it has a little heightened height to it, right, because it is HBCU. You just kinda have that that special bond and that vibe, like, hey. You went here. What are you doing? What you know, how how can I help you progress and be a change maker or a success or or contribute to to society in a positive way?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:32:43]:
That's good. That's that's good to have those types of connections. Yeah. So then why do you think it's important for students to consider attending an HBCU?

Officer Jill [00:32:54]:
Well, I think it it varies if I would say in because it is a historical black college. I think as if you are a a African American, if you are black, you will have an experience that you may not have at a predominantly white school. You know, I'll just be honest. It's gonna be very different in the sense that some of the things I describe, you're you're surrounded by people who look like you. Right? You're being taught by people who look like you. Not only you know, some of the professors are also, you know, not not black as well, but you're you're surrounded by buildings of change makers. And and not and also mention this, find a way to integrate black culture into the teaching. Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:33:33]:
Yeah. And so you get some of that, what you probably aren't gonna get at, you know, a predominantly white school.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:33:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. As far as integrating part of that into the teaching, I remember I took I took a lot of black studies classes

Officer Jill [00:33:48]:
Mhmm.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:33:48]:
From I went to Cal State Long Beach. We had a very strong black studies department.

Officer Jill [00:33:52]:
Mhmm.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:33:53]:
And I took a black studies class,

Officer Jill [00:33:56]:
but

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:33:57]:
it was an English class. So instead of, like, English 100 or English 101 Mhmm. I took my English class in the black studies department. So you're literally, like, reading black literature as part of the the the, you know, the books that you assigned. I remember reading the autobiography of Assata Shakur, which I know I never would have been assigned that just in a regular English class. So

Officer Jill [00:34:19]:
Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:34:19]:
That was a way of of just integrating the our, you know, our cultural experiences, our historical experiences into the coursework.

Officer Jill [00:34:29]:
Yes. Absolutely. And and that makes it's like a it's like double. Right? You're you're getting the best of both worlds. You're learning. Yeah. Right? But you're also getting some of that culture into you too that you more than likely would not be exposed to at at a different college. So that's what I would encourage anyone who's who's you know? And and like I said at at the panel when I spoke at the high school, if ultimately when you're thinking about what college you want to attend, ultimately choose the one that fits your circumstance and what you're trying to accomplish best, obviously.

Officer Jill [00:34:58]:
Right? Mhmm. Make sure they have your major. You don't wanna go to a school that has your major no matter what they are. Right? Whether it's HBCU or not. Yeah. They're not offering your major. Why are

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:35:07]:
you going there? Yes. Right? Yes.

Officer Jill [00:35:09]:
But so, yeah, find something that fits what you have going. However, if if HBCU fits your situation, I would absolutely absolutely consider it because it's just an amazing experience. There's been so many notable contributors to society who have attended Howard University. You have the the Andrew Young. Right? You have Elijah Cummings. Right? You can go into the entertainment world, Phylicia Rashad, the Black Panther. Right? I don't call it Black Panther. Chadwick Baldwin.

Officer Jill [00:35:37]:
Right? So many so many notable people, and and I have yet to come across anyone who has attended Howard and has said I would say, with the exception of they may have some some some admin problems as far as the, paperwork sometimes get lost. With the exception of that, I haven't heard anyone actually speak bad of the experience and the education and just the the full, I guess, progression of of culture and being put into you. I speak very highly of it. I wish I would have been able to go the full 4 years, but the 2 years was, oh my god. It was it was a great 2 years to attend and to save some money. But, yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true.

Officer Jill [00:36:24]:
And you and you still get to

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:36:25]:
be an alumni. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. With with your Mecca, the Mecca had on.

Officer Jill [00:36:30]:
The Mecca. Exactly. I'm glad you let the people know that I am wearing hu is the mecca. It is the real hu.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:36:39]:
I love it. I love it. So I have a little cousin who is going to she's graduated from high school this year. She lives in Vegas, and she is headed off to an HBCU. She's going to Howard. She's gonna be in Louisiana. But my question for you is, what type of like, what ex what advice would you give a college student who is headed off to a HBCU? Like, what advice would you give them in terms of making the most of their college experience?

Officer Jill [00:37:08]:
One of the things I wish I would have done, and I would encourage anyone to get as involved with community as you can and the clubs. I'll be so I did play softball while I was there. So I was yeah. I played softball. I played 1 year of softball because just just some admin reasons. Not admin. I shouldn't say my because I spent a year a a second year at at at my eligibility, basically, I could only play 1 year of 1 full year, basically, just to make it easy. I only had 1 year of of sports eligibility.

Officer Jill [00:37:44]:
So I played 1 year there, but I wish I would have been more involved in more of the clubs. Okay. So I would encourage you to or your cousin or whomever to try to get involved as much as you can that your work schedule or your your school schedule allows. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:38:01]:
Okay.

Officer Jill [00:38:01]:
You don't wanna overwhelm yourself when you're you're not sticking to your studies because you have to go to this club meeting. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:38:09]:
Let's remember why we're here.

Officer Jill [00:38:11]:
Exactly. Exactly. I would try to just immerse yourself in the culture as much as you can because it it you're not gonna ever have an experience that you're gonna have at that HBCU anywhere else Anywhere else, you know. Don't don't shy away from experiencing the culture. That's the main thing I I would say, for

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:38:30]:
sure. Okay. Yeah. That that makes sense too because, like, that's that's one of the things that's making the difference between the HBCU and a PWI. So so yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah. So I have a few questions.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:38:45]:
I I'm gonna back up to something that you mentioned earlier. You said that there was a Howard University alumni that had given you some tips on your podcast. Right? So I want to talk a little bit about your podcast. So I know that you I know you have a podcast, the human side with officer Jill.

Officer Jill [00:39:03]:
Yes, ma'am. The human side with

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:39:04]:
officer Jill.

Officer Jill [00:39:05]:
That's it.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:39:06]:
Human side with officer Jill. And so I know that you're committed to improving the relationship between law enforcement and the community and rebuilding trust. And one of the things that you mentioned on your podcast is that, you know, one of the ways that you do this is by having honest and impactful conversations. So I want you to tell us a little bit about your podcast.

Officer Jill [00:39:26]:
Yes. Absolutely. Thank you. So I I would say over the past, maybe, couple years, obviously, we were all exposed to what happened with with George Floyd and things like that. That coupled with just looking at the history of law enforcement and minority community, not just black community, minority community, it has struggled. Right? It has struggled. And what I have learned in my 15 years of experience is that when you are actually able to have just real normal conversations with people, their perspectives are shifted. And I've learned that on the job.

Officer Jill [00:39:58]:
Like, you talk and you explain things to people. And so many times I hear people say, oh, I never thought about it that way. Oh, I've never heard it explained that way. Right? Or I have said, oh, I've never seen it from that point of view. You know? Thank you for sharing that with me. Right? And so because of that, I think we can actively or another way that we can actively improve the relationship. So I decided, you know, hey. Why not go out and recreate these real conversations with people? I just randomly go to just places in public, and I have these conversations with people.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:40:33]:
You just run up on them with a mic.

Officer Jill [00:40:36]:
I do it in a very cordial, you know, in a manner that is not weird. Right? I do ask for permission, but I I

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:40:46]:
I have one thing

Officer Jill [00:40:46]:
I will say. I don't tell them I'm a police officer.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:40:49]:
Okay. Don't tell them Ever at all.

Officer Jill [00:40:51]:
I tell them at the beginning. So in the beginning, I I I want them to just see me as another human being.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:40:58]:
Uh-huh.

Officer Jill [00:40:58]:
Right? Hits the word human side. Right? Yeah. Because when we take out the badge, when I take out the uniform, right, it it allows them to be able just to be and I won't say calm, but be just human and just talk to me. And we can talk about these these issues that we have and hopefully try to get some understanding. And so I just go and I just ask them questions about law enforcement and just societal issues. And then at the end, I let them now reveal to them that I'm actually a police officer. And most of them are like, what? You're cool. I don't know.

Officer Jill [00:41:30]:
Police officers are cool. I was like, sure I am. But, like, I want you to see. See, I'm a police officer, but I'm also cool. I'm also human. I'm just another person. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:41:39]:
Right. When I put

Officer Jill [00:41:40]:
on this badge, I'm the same person. I put on this uniform. I'm the same person. You know? I just now I just have a different job description, if you will. Right? Right. But so that's pretty much the the gist of it. I go out and I just have these conversations. And and my hope is that people who who also watch it on YouTube or listen to it on the podcast, that they are experiencing that same perspective shift or just that experience of seeing me outside of uniform in hopes that they can see officers in that human aspect and vice versa.

Officer Jill [00:42:13]:
Right? I interview officers, and and and we kinda exchange in dialogue and talk about all the different things, and people get to see us just having normal human conversations. Yeah. And they get to experience that. So that's really the the basis of the the show.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:42:26]:
And you also interview other officers. Yeah. I Mhmm. I saw the episode of, I don't remember the officer's name, but he was in Vegas.

Officer Jill [00:42:36]:
Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:42:36]:
I was an officer in Vegas. And that was such a good episode. Thank you. It really was. It was giving me Jamille Hill vibes. Like, it was so it was so good. You were you were to law enforcement, which she is to sports. Like, it was so good.

Officer Jill [00:42:51]:
Thank you. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. And that's and that's what I want people to experience. You know, we were just having conversations that other that we had, the officers have, and we described how and and and if you if you haven't, please go and check it out. It actually is I enjoyed the conversation because we're we're very candid and open about how we how we navigate the challenges of of law enforcement. And he talks about how and I don't know if you remember, he he wasn't a fan of police before he came on.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:43:20]:
Absolutely.

Officer Jill [00:43:21]:
Yeah. He was not a fan. We had some conversations before when I was actually law enforcement, and he wasn't. So, you know, you guys feel free to go check it out as he explains what, what changed his perspective into how police and stuff. So.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:43:36]:
Yeah. I'll, I'm going to put the link to that, to your episode, to that episode in with the with the show notes so that people can find it easily. So so let's talk a little bit about students and interacting with the police. Sure. Because you know, academic survival, you we want them to survive. Yeah. The academics, we want them to survive. Interactions with police officers, we want them to survive just life on campus because sometimes campuses can be because sometimes campuses could be dangerous.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:44:04]:
So Yeah. Sure. Oh, so let's start off with, like, an incident. So if a student is approached by a police officer, either on or off campus, what should they keep in mind to help it be a safe and respectful interaction?

Officer Jill [00:44:18]:
You know, I think a lot of the same or the awareness that they need to have is the same that you would have if you weren't a student. Right? Because you have the same rights, essentially. Right? As a as a a person in America, everyone has rights. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:44:32]:
When

Officer Jill [00:44:32]:
you come to interacting with law enforcement, there are some changes with or some some differences when it comes to what type of, school it is. Right? So it's because some private schools, their law enforcement their law enforcement officers only have certain arresting capabilities while they're on duty. Private schools, not all of them have that. Right? K. And then some can have that same at least in California, peace officers can arrest someone even they're off duty. That's just something just a little note. But I think the same thing they need to wear need to be aware of that you would if you weren't on campus. Right? Know your rights.

Officer Jill [00:45:07]:
It's the basic Miranda rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you anything you say can and will and will use against you. It absolutely will be used against you in the court of law. Right? Know those basic rights. They still apply to you whether you're on campus or off campus. Another element for, let's say most colleges have their own school police. So, usually, they're enforcing not only just regular laws, but they're usually enforcing some school policies, right, where your local law enforcement, they're not gonna be doing that.

Officer Jill [00:45:38]:
Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:45:39]:
Not usually. Okay.

Officer Jill [00:45:40]:
So that may be the only slight difference. So know when if you're violating a potential school policy, and what what that gives the officers the right to do. I would encourage like, I always encourage anyone who comes to contact law enforcement, be respectful. Right? You're gonna you're going to get what you give off, and I think that's just a natural thing. You know? If you if you are responding aggressively, you know, and and bringing conflict, you're probably going to get encouraged that same response, you know? And so I, I would say the same things that you would, you would do in an outside of a school setting, do them in the school setting when you're encountering law enforcement.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:46:22]:
Okay. I remember I'm I think I may have told this story before on a different episode, but I I work with an individual who's prior secret service. And one of the tips that he gave me was, you know, if you're in a car and you're being pulled over Mhmm. Like, put all your windows down.

Officer Jill [00:46:41]:
Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:46:41]:
Like, especially if you have tinted windows, just put all your windows down and do what you can to kinda like make the the officer a little bit more at ease as he Yeah. As he's approaching your vehicle. Yes. As he or she is approaching your vehicle.

Officer Jill [00:46:54]:
Yes. Absolutely. That's that is a a an awesome tip. And I would also say one of the things that we we are constantly aware of are people's hands. Mhmm. Right? Hands are the mechanism that hold weapons because they're a mechanism that hold weapons. We know that weapons hurt people. Right?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:47:11]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:47:12]:
So we go to the basics. I need to see your hands. You ever you ever hear officer say that a lot.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:47:16]:
Let

Officer Jill [00:47:17]:
me see your hands. Because I know that as long as I see your hands, there's nothing in them. There's there's that threat at least has been eliminated.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:47:24]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:47:24]:
Right? And and so I would be mindful of where you're placing your hands when you're encountering the police. Have them in a visible place. You know? Don't put them behind your back. Don't you know what I mean? Because now I think, what are you hiding? Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:47:37]:
Is there

Officer Jill [00:47:37]:
is there a weapon back there? Right? That until I see that they're your hands are clear, I need to make sure that they are no longer a threat to me. So I think that's an another good tip along with also getting stopped. Definitely roll down your windows. It just makes it easier. I don't know if you saw recently this past week. Did you see that shooting? But officers at a traffic stop, thank god they were protected. Officers in LA goes to traffic stop. And before they can even put the car in park, the suspect would, like, a high powered machine it was like it sounded like a machine gun or rifle shot through the back windshield.

Officer Jill [00:48:09]:
Multiple shots, right, to the point where the officer's car, like, caught they couldn't even get out the car fast enough. Thank god they survived, and they got away for that night, but it's been, like, a week it felt like maybe a week or 2 ago, and they he's in custody now. They found the guy. But Okay.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:48:24]:
Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:48:24]:
It it's traffic stops are are are very scary for officers, and so rolling down the window definitely definitely helps for those particular reasons. We can see who's in the car, what's going on, and things like that. So,

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:48:37]:
hopefully, that's helpful. Yeah. That absolutely is. How should students handle a situation if they feel they are being treated unfairly by a police officer?

Officer Jill [00:48:47]:
Oh, and and you know what? I one thing I like to tell people is is always comply. I know people don't like to hear that. Right? Because when you feel like you're being mistreated, you wanna say something. Right? And I get it. I 100% get that. I felt that way before before I got hired. Right? You wanna say something. However, there are systems.

Officer Jill [00:49:07]:
Believe it or not, there are systems that are set up for you to be able to report things like this in a in a manner where it's taken care of. I wanna encourage you, do not physically fight because that that will add so much more debt. If let's say you had a valid claim, that's gonna be out the window now. You know what I mean? Because now you you progressed it into a crime. You know? So I wanna encourage people, don't fight. Don't physically fight. Comply. Make make note of what you are seeing, right, so that you can explain that in detail when you do report it.

Officer Jill [00:49:42]:
Make note of who's there, right, of all the people that are involved. Right? Yeah. And nowadays, we everyone has body cams pretty much. Right? So it's it's very difficult for officers to try to lie that something happened. You know what I mean? Now to say that they they don't do it, I'm not gonna say that. There's no way I'm gonna say that because, unfortunately, there are bad apples in this in this in this in this in this field. And it's not like any other field. There's bad apples in every single profession.

Officer Jill [00:50:11]:
Right? But just make, I would say, visible note of what you see and how you're feeling. Right? When this when the situation is over, you can always ask. 1, you can always ask for a supervisor. There's never a time where you can't ask for a supervisor. Ask for a supervisor.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:50:27]:
Wow. Okay. I've asked for a start. I never would have thought of that. Okay.

Officer Jill [00:50:32]:
Yeah. Absolutely. If you're if you feel like you're being mistreated, this officer is violating your rights, they stop you for the wrong reasons, whatever the case may be, ask for a supervisor. I can tell you what my agency when someone asks for a supervisor, we shall. Meaning, shall is like the holy grail of Yes. Of policing. You must do that. Yes.

Officer Jill [00:50:52]:
Right? That's a violation. You know? And like I said, you can't lie about it because it's on camera. Right? So ask for for a supervisor. Right? Ask for a supervisor so at least that person can come in to kinda help navigate that situation. One of the biggest things, report it. Every agency has a way in which you can report that you felt like you've been mistreated. And and that's when now you take note of all the things that you saw that they did, and you write and you write it down or explain that to their superior, to the supervisor that is more more than likely taking that complaint. You know? There's a process in place for that.

Officer Jill [00:51:27]:
So it doesn't just and I can speak from my agency. I can tell you that we take every single complaint literally. Whether it's true or false, we take them at least.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:51:37]:
Mhmm.

Officer Jill [00:51:37]:
We take them, and they're gonna be investigated. And it's not just gonna be swept under the rug. So you do have resources if you feel like you've been mistreated, but just do not fight. Do not visit the flight. It makes it yeah. It makes it worse. Yeah. It makes it worse, whatever the situation is.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:51:56]:
Okay. So, obviously, do not fight. Now let's transition a little bit to personal safety

Officer Jill [00:52:03]:
Mhmm.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:52:03]:
For students who are on campus. Are there any safety tips that you would wanna share with students who perhaps need to walk alone at night?

Officer Jill [00:52:14]:
Yes. Absolutely. You know, one of the one

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:52:16]:
of the

Officer Jill [00:52:17]:
go ahead.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:52:18]:
I was gonna say, I I was talking to my cousin, the one who's getting ready to go to college about this, and she was like, yeah. Don't walk alone. She's like, don't do it.

Officer Jill [00:52:27]:
Listen. Don't walk alone on outside of college. If it's

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:52:32]:
Yeah. There any what what are some, like so let's get into, like, again, like, personal safety tips. Like, so at night, like, would it be

Officer Jill [00:52:39]:
to your to your advice

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:52:40]:
to students walking on campus at night?

Officer Jill [00:52:42]:
I love that. Absolutely have the buddy system. 100%. I think one one of the the challenges on colleges, college campuses are sexual assaults. Right? You just have to be honest about that. And a big contributor factor is alcohol. Right? Which lives on college campuses. Right? And so those 2, unfortunately, those 2 things go together.

Officer Jill [00:53:03]:
And so it does happen. I would say, 1, be mindful of when you're at parties where you're setting your drinks down, if you set it down at all. Right? Be mindful what you are drinking and who you're getting it from.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:53:18]:
Mhmm.

Officer Jill [00:53:20]:
Some important things to keep in mind. Right? You can't get rid of alcohol in college campuses. Unfortunately, it's a part of that quote, unquote experience for some people. Right? For most people. And so just be mindful of that. Right? Definitely definitely walk or try to find a way to walk with someone. Know what resources are available to you on that campus. Most college campuses have resources available.

Officer Jill [00:53:45]:
Right? Like, they have I don't have a specific term, but they have, like, groups that will drive you home. You know? There's, like, special numbers that you can call or text, and they show up on a golf cart. Right? Right home. Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:53:57]:
Yes. I remember it was new when I was in college, but they were installing, like, places where you could, like, push a button.

Officer Jill [00:54:06]:
Yes.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:54:06]:
It's well lit area. You can push a button, and a campus safety person can come to you and escort you where you need to go.

Officer Jill [00:54:14]:
Yes. They actually have that on my campus too. I was gonna mention that. They usually have, like like you said, like, a little pole and it's lit, and you just press the button and an operator will come on and they'll send someone. Right? The good thing about having campus police is that that's their only job, is campus. Right? It's not like local authority where they're all over the city. Right? And so you do have access to that. When you get to your campus, I would say go to campus police.

Officer Jill [00:54:38]:
Ask them, Hey. What what resources are available to me in order to keep me safe? And I guarantee you

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:54:44]:
That's really good. Yeah.

Officer Jill [00:54:46]:
They'll tell you exactly what they provide. You know?

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:54:49]:
That's really good to, like, to just start there. Like, when you get to campus, because so I I have this, I have this thing that I do when I get into when I check into a hotel. Okay. First thing I do. Okay. I check into a hotel. I go into my room. Okay.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:55:07]:
I set my stuff down and then I immediately leave and find all the emergency exits.

Officer Jill [00:55:13]:
Wow.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:55:13]:
From my from my floor. Find the emergency exits. But also, I don't just find them. I count how many doors I have to pass to get to that exit. Because if there's a fire, you're gonna be on the floor. You need to know how far you need to crawl in order to get to your exit. So, yeah, I mean, I literally I drop my stuff. I find where's the nearest exit and how many doors do I need to pass in order to get there.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:55:39]:
Like, what does the floor look like? Because if Look at

Officer Jill [00:55:42]:
that criminal justice look at that criminal justice major coming out. Oh, I'm a have to start I'm a start doing this in my in my check ins

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:55:51]:
because you because you don't wanna find out in the time of a crisis that, oh, guess what? That door is locked. Or you thought it says emergency exit, but you know what? It it leads to a hallway, and it's like, I don't know how many how many floors down or yeah. Stairs to nowhere. Right? Right. Or it's it's it's similar to when I'm on a plane. Right? They say, like, find find your nearest emergency exit. It might be behind you.

Officer Jill [00:56:16]:
You. Yeah. Yeah. No. You're right. You're absolutely right. And that's just it. Like, have and that's when you go to the to the school police.

Officer Jill [00:56:24]:
That's where you create your plan.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:56:26]:
You know? Exactly. Exactly.

Officer Jill [00:56:28]:
Planning is is huge in law enforcement. It's everything we do. We have a plan for everything and it does help because you're you said it exactly. You know what to do when that time arrives.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:56:36]:
You know what to do when that time arrives. It even had we have a where I work there, we have a law enforcement component. And I remember when they offered us up an opportunity to like, everyone has to do go through this run, hide, fight, active shooter training. Mhmm. But, you know, we we were also given an opportunity to, you know would you like me to come to your office and give you a personal plan? If you were in your office, where should you hide? Wow. If you have to, you know, if, you know, I feel I know. And we have we have drills regularly, so we have to like know how we had a major we had a major incident where we had an employee get killed. Oh, no.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:57:19]:
And ever since then, we have our emergency evacuation drills. But as far as, you know, going on campus and having that initial conversation with law enforcement. Because I always think that it's good to know the people that you need to know. And so it's great to meet because campuses are small enough. It's good to know the law the local law enforcement community that's on campus before you need them. So, yeah, it would not not bad idea to go there.

Officer Jill [00:57:43]:
Just, you

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:57:44]:
know, introduce yourself. And then as far as the campus areas where there's lighting and the the those buttons where you can push to, summons help. Or sorry, summons an escort to your vehicle or to your back to your dorm, knowing where there's where, where those are as well.

Officer Jill [00:58:01]:
Yeah. And you know what? One of my coworkers, he was planning his, his, his daughter was going to college. So one of the things that they did, they actually researched, you know, the crime in the area. Right. Because most colleges, they're surrounded by a community of some sort. Right. So you can kind of learn, hey, this some of the thing and it actually helped them make the decision of where their their daughter was going to go to school based on the type of crimes. You can't get away from crime.

Officer Jill [00:58:24]:
It's unfortunate part of society. Right? But you can learn how to mitigate it, manage it right, and navigate it, I should say. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's it's all part of the planning process, I think. Yeah. No. Don't go in there blind, though. Don't go on and just say you're gonna figure out the night that you're drinking.

Officer Jill [00:58:41]:
Now you need to figure out what's going on. You're not thinking clearly. Right? Because you're you're intoxicated. Right? So I think that's probably the biggest thing I would encourage people to do. Go to the actual campus police station and ask them, hey. What how what services are available? What do you provide? What can I do if this happens or whatever? Right? And they'll bring out the whole list because that's their job is is that campus. That's their responsibility.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:59:10]:
Yeah. And then even, like, finding out if they offer any kind of, like, self defense

Officer Jill [00:59:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:59:17]:
self defense Yeah. Courses or For sure.

Officer Jill [00:59:19]:
Alright. Or learn the basics for yourself.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:59:22]:
Yeah. That's true too. That's true.

Officer Jill [00:59:23]:
Why not? YouTube YouTube University teach you anything you need

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:59:27]:
to know. We love that. We love us some YouTube University. So any how about any tips for, like, cyber cyber safety? Not cybersecurity, but cyber like, online. You know? People like to, like,

Officer Jill [00:59:40]:
oh. OMG. Right? It is the Internet I love the Internet. K? But I hate the Internet.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [00:59:47]:
Right?

Officer Jill [00:59:47]:
Mhmm. And I think we all know that it is so beneficial to life, but it can be very dangerous to life. Yeah. We obviously, dating on online is a thing. It's unfortunate. It's and I won't say unfortunate because sometimes it could be a great thing. You hear about people meeting the love of their life online. Right? But you have to also be mindful because, unfortunately, it's also a place where a lot of scammers live, and they'll pose as someone else.

Officer Jill [01:00:11]:
I think dating is a big one. Be mindful of who you are talking to. Know who you're if you meet someone online and they claim to be a student at the school or whatever, or maybe they're not, I would say have a face to face FaceTime conversation, not in person, I should say. Yeah. Digital. Okay. Got it. FaceTime.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:00:29]:
Virtual.

Officer Jill [01:00:30]:
A virtual. There you go. Virtual conversation.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:00:32]:
You need

Officer Jill [01:00:32]:
to do because it could be someone in anywhere across the country who is posing as someone else. And there's been

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:00:35]:
so many scams where people lose

Officer Jill [01:00:36]:
1,000 and 1,000 of dollars from online dating. Not only that. Yes. Online dating does that, unfortunately. And also just and violence. Right? Or make sure that that person I wouldn't meet anyone for the first time outside of a public place. Right? Don't ask to meet them at night, you know, at a park. Right.

Officer Jill [01:01:08]:
Right? Yeah. Go to a coffee shop in the middle of the day. Right? Because then you could someone can see with them. And you and then after you had that conversation, you can turn, okay, maybe this is the person. This is the same person that I've been speaking to and and this so forth.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:01:21]:
I always think it's important to remember when you're posting videos of where you are. Mhmm. Being mindful of, you know, maybe not posting. That where you are while you're while you're still there, you know, or while you're still there, like come back home and then you can post what you did for the day, but not necessarily advertising your every move where if somebody is watching you, they're like, Oh, they're not home right now, but I can be waiting for them when they get back.

Officer Jill [01:01:51]:
Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking. You know, if you're going on a trip, you know, I never wants to show we were here. We went there. Do all your your footage when you get home and you're actually there and then post it, right? You don't have to actually do it when you're gone. What is what's the difference? Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:02:06]:
You're not. You're not an on location reporter that needs to go live, right?

Officer Jill [01:02:10]:
Yes. It's very important. And I think it's good that you brought it up. That's very important. You wanna be mindful of what you're posting. If you're in college campus, what dorm you're living in. Right? Be mindful of that. You know? I know you wanna you wanna show that off and and or just just share that with whomever, your followers, your friends, whomever.

Officer Jill [01:02:29]:
But, unfortunately, people who commit crimes like that, they are paying attention

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:02:34]:
to things

Officer Jill [01:02:34]:
that you are doing, and they're they're becoming more sophisticated. They are changing just like we are changing. Right? They're changing like society there as as the Internet and society upgrades. Guess what? Unfortunately, criminals upgrade too.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:02:50]:
Yes.

Officer Jill [01:02:51]:
So be mindful of that for sure.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:02:53]:
They have all the same tools.

Officer Jill [01:02:55]:
Unfortunately, we've seen an an uptick in those type of crimes, cyber crimes for sure. Cyber guys are are and gals are definitely very busy. Yeah.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:03:05]:
As we get ready to wrap things up, is there any advice you wanna give or any last minute statement you wanna make either about Howard University or the HBCU experience or law enforcement? Any final, like, closing remarks? Anything that I missed?

Officer Jill [01:03:22]:
I don't think you missed anything. I I wanna say thank you, first of all, for for the conversation. I appreciate you for sure. Yeah. I think I love your show. When it comes as far as HBCUs, consider it. I wanna tell people to consider it. You know? I know it may not have, I guess, in American society, it may not have it may not be the the Harvard or the Yale.

Officer Jill [01:03:43]:
Right? The Ivy League that's that maybe some people may look for, but it's a very unique and beneficial experience that you will not receive anywhere else. And and encourage everyone to to say hi to the police when you see us.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:04:02]:
Oh, right.

Officer Jill [01:04:03]:
We're a lot nicer than you think. I promise, don't let that the badge and the uniform and everything scare you. I can tell you from personal experience, we are just like you. Alright.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:04:15]:
So Say hi to the police when you see them. I'm gonna say I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna say, please do. Okay. There you go.

Officer Jill [01:04:21]:
Hey, officer. Alright.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:04:26]:
Well, officer Jill, thank you so much for coming to the academic survival podcast. I know that you have given us so many good tips and so many awesome nuggets on HBCUs and interacting with the police. So thank you very much.

Officer Jill [01:04:42]:
Absolutely. You guys go check out my podcast. I'm on YouTube. I am on, Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:04:48]:
And I'm gonna make sure that I drop links.

Officer Jill [01:04:51]:
Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate you so much.

Dr. Shandra McDonald [01:05:01]:
That's it for today on academic survival. If you wanna share your story on how you survived your freshman year of college, you can reach me at info at shandralmcdonald.com. We'll be back next week with more ways to survive your academic journey. Until then, happy studying.